by Matthew Russell Lee, Patreon Book Substack
SDNY COURTHOUSE, Oct 23 – After the $5 million verdict in the first E. Jean Carroll v. Trump trial in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, on October 23, 2023 Trump's appeal was heard in the Second Circuit. Inner City Press was there and live tweeted, thread here
Trump's lawyer: If this is not overturned, a President will be held civilly liable for his act. This court must affirm presidential immunity, it is rooted in separation of powers.
Judge Maria Araújo Kahn: How would it be weakened if we find it a waivable defense? Didn't the Supreme Court compare it to prosecutorial immunity, and find it waivable?
Trump's lawyer: This is about the separation of powers question. The Supreme Count in Nixon called the separation of powers the most important defense.
Judge Kahn: But your client filed a counter claim. Should that have been thrown out?
Trump's lawyer: That was about more recent conduct. My client's statements were in 2019
Judge Kahn: What if a president wants to litigate?
Trump's lawyer: He could sue... These were statements in White House press releases and in response to reporters' questions. They were defensive. [Continues reading while Judge Kahn tries to ask a question]
Judge Kahn: You are over-time. I'll give you a chance to speak after.
E. Jean Carroll's lawyer: My adversary's arguments are hokum. Several Presidential powers are waivable. I refer you to this Circuit's Geico case... In the Paula Jones case, she alleged that the president's spokespeople slandered her - Clinton issued a bare denial of sexual conduct. Mr. Trump attacked Ms. Carroll, with no involvement of anyone in the White House
Carroll's lawyer: In DC, Judge Mehta rejected these argument [That is pending in the DC Circuit]. Here, the President attacked a private citizen, and her appearance.
Carroll's lawyer: Think of January 6 - a president may engage in speech not in furtherance of any governmental policy that causes harm. If no further questions..
Judge Kahn: Seeing none, thank you counsel. To Trump's lawyer: Why didn't your client raise it earlier?
Trump's lawyer: It was not included at that time... The Judge Mehta case is different. Here, he was responding to the press, he was acting as a President.
Judge Kahn: Thank you, the court will reserve decision
The case is E. Jean Carrol v. Donald J. Trump, v23-1045-cv and 23-1146-cv (Kaplan)
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